Curse

World Therapy · Dec 28, 2007, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Hey, I've just begun playing Guild Wars so I don't know alot about anything. Aswell, I don't have any expansions, so I can't mix a mesmer with any expansion classes.

I've been looking at alot of different mesmer builds, especially Domination which is what I think is the most interesting. But I was wondering about something.
Alot of the builds I've been looking at are supposed to prevent enemies casting spells by draining energy and interrupting spells.
But I was thinking if there was a build for mesmers to deal damage with spells similar to Backfire. I'm not only looking for builds with spells similar to Backfire, was just wondering if there was such one, but any damage-dealing build.

So, are there any builds for mesmers to deal damage in PVP instead of denying enemies to cast spells?

Stormlord Alex · Dec 28, 2007, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by World Therapy

So, are there any builds for mesmers to deal damage in PVP instead of denying enemies to cast spells?

To be blunt, no.
They can assist in getting kills with Shatter Enchantment and Energy Burn/Surge, but killing things outright is best left to physicals, which have constant, insanely high damage, strong, swift spikes, and a whole bunch of other skills to kill with.

The mesmer can best help by pressuring foes with stuff like Diversion and Power Leak, leaving the enemy helpless to Warriors which actually kill things.

You can't see me · Dec 28, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

To be blunt, no.
They can assist in getting kills with Shatter Enchantment and Energy Burn/Surge, but killing things outright is best left to physicals, which have constant, insanely high damage, strong, swift spikes, and a whole bunch of other skills to kill with.

The mesmer can best help by pressuring foes with stuff like Diversion and Power Leak, leaving the enemy helpless to Warriors which actually kill things.

[skill]shatter enchantment[/skill][skill]enchanter's conundrum[/skill][skill]shatter delusions[/skill][skill]energy burn[/skill] Insert rest of bar with spike assisting skills like [skill]wastrel's demise[/skill] or pressure like [skill]backfire[/skill]

You need a lesson in Mesmer-ism.

Using the skills from left to right, this will bring your opponent down to at least half health if not 1/8th health. Use enchantment removal to make the spike viable, use the spike, and then pressure/wand until they die. You can add skills like [skill]power spike[/skill] and [skill]power leak[/skill] to inturupt casters or skills like [skill]empathy[/skill] to pressure attackers.

You can also use [skill]arcane echo[/skill] -> [skill]enchanter's conundrum[/skill] for a double spike.

Chicken Ftw · Dec 28, 2007, 04:09 AM // 04:09

He meant in serious PvP, not scrubville where anything works. Sorry.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 28, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

[skill]shatter enchantment[/skill][skill]enchanter's conundrum[/skill][skill]shatter delusions[/skill][skill]energy burn[/skill] Insert rest of bar with spike assisting skills like [skill]wastrel's demise[/skill] or pressure like [skill]backfire[/skill]

That's good for a mesmer.
But still bad compared to most other classes. Heck, even Eles can do better.

Sorry, but it fails outside of scrub PvP. And even then, it's still not using your mesmer to the best of its abilities.

Try again.

You can't see me · Dec 28, 2007, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

He meant in serious PvP, not scrubville where anything works. Sorry.

I see nowhere in that post that says he wants to HA/GvG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

That's good for a mesmer.
But still bad compared to most other classes. Heck, even Eles can do better.

Sorry, but it fails outside of scrub PvP. And even then, it's still not using your mesmer to the best of its abilities.

Try again.

I gave the OP what he asked for. I never said it spiked better than an ele or even a ritualist. I never said to use in GvG or HA. Heck, scrub PvP would probably be a good place for this guy to start, and if he wants to run damage, let him.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 28, 2007, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

I gave the OP what he asked for. I never said it spiked better than an ele or even a ritualist. I never said to use in GvG or HA. Heck, scrub PvP would probably be a good place for this guy to start, and if he wants to run damage, let him.

And if he wants to learn to be a good Mesmer, running a gimmicky spike build that fails vs. anyone worth fighting isn't going to get him far.

You can't see me · Dec 28, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

And if he wants to learn to be a good Mesmer, running a gimmicky spike build that fails vs. anyone worth fighting isn't going to get him far.

Then he should have asked for a good mesmer build over all, instead of specifically asking for Something Different.

Chicken Ftw · Dec 28, 2007, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Well, I was of the opinion we try to help people be good players, but hey. Helping them turn into RA scrubs that think damage is everything is fine too, I guess.

Are there builds to deal damage as a mesmer? Sure. Are they good/do they work versus good/organized teams? No, not really.

You can't see me · Dec 28, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Well, I was of the opinion we try to help people be good players, but hey. Helping them turn into RA scrubs that think damage is everything is fine too, I guess.

Are there builds to deal damage as a mesmer? Sure. Are they good/do they work versus good/organized teams? No, not really.

It would have been different if originally, the first post had said no good builds exist. However, since it denied their existance at all, he was wrong.

As for turning him into an RA scrub, I never said that I advised this over pressure builds. In fact, I discourage using direct damage on a mesmer most of the time. I just answered his question. If he wants to play a good mesmer, yes, he'll run pressure, but when I see a question, I tend to give someone an orange if they ask for one, and not a banana.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 28, 2007, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

It would have been different if originally, the first post had said no good builds exist. However, since it denied their existance at all, he was wrong.

I deny their existance because they're laughable.

Like, say... warriors with MR. They exist, but are pathetic and can thus be discounted by anyone who as a) good or b) wants to be good.

You can't see me · Dec 28, 2007, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I deny their existance because they're laughable.

Like, say... warriors with MR. They exist, but are pathetic and can thus be discounted by anyone who as a) good or b) wants to be good.

As I remember, he didn't ask how good the builds were. He asked if they existed. If someone said, is it possible to run MS on a warrior? I'd say, yes, and let him find out for himself it's not a good idea.

Either way- OP, yes, the builds exist. It'll work in RA, AB, and some of TA, but not in higher end PvP. I wouldn't reccomend coming to rely on these builds, or seeing them as good ones. If you want to play a good mesmer, go pressure. That's all that needs to be said here.

Chicken Ftw · Dec 28, 2007, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I deny their existance because they're laughable.

Like, say... warriors with MR. They exist, but are pathetic and can thus be discounted by anyone who as a) good or b) wants to be good.

I lol'd once because it was great, and a second time because I think it went over his head. <3

But yeah... giving this kind of build to someone is like giving sugar-filled food to a diabetic. No matter how badly they might want it, it's still bad for them in the long run.

World Therapy · Dec 28, 2007, 01:28 PM // 13:28

I'm sorry for not being active in this thread, even though I don't think I'd do the biggest difference.
But thanks for the help, guys!

Clarissa F · Dec 28, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

PvP mesmers are great to play, and great fun. You might want to go to Gladiator Arena forum for help, though, as this is pretty much PvE, though there are people here who do good PvP(NOT one of them).

In PvP your job is to make the caster's job a living hell, and to make melee look stupid(not hard). Something like [skill]ineptitude[/skill] [skill]clumsiness[/skill] [skill]mistrust[/skill] [skill]power drain[/skill] [skill]conjure nightmare[/skill] [skill]shatter enchantment[/skill] and a few others. [skill]migraine[/skill] and [skill]mantra of recovery[/skill] are also nice to build around.

edit: and can we get an update on the link to wiki? nightmare is a 15 e cost. has been for a few months.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Conjure_Nightmare

Dkraftwerk · Dec 28, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

As a Mesmer, I find, you are at your best paying attention to the fight as a whole. Hindering enemy actions is more your goal than anything else, and at times that will mean damage dealing, but that won't always be the case. For that reason I personally don't believe that Mesmers are highly effective as damage dealers, but I would never say you should shrug them off as such. There are abilities which will do damage indirectly like empathy and backfire, but they are dependent on the enemy's actions. I think if you can consistently look at it from that perspective that may help you in your skill choices.

I would say those two skills along with a few others are pretty key if you want to do some damage, since every mob in the game is either a spellcaster and/or a melee fighter. I find energy burn and energy surge pretty excellent skills to maintain since they damage based on energy, which is something every profession in this game posesses.

You can take a look at PvX site for some build ideas, though it may not be what you are looking for. It can give you a rough idea of what others do with their Mesmers. Here is the link:

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page

Hope that sheds some light on what you're looking for.

Good luck!

zling · Dec 31, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

first of all as a new player you shouldnt start the game with the Mesmer profession as its 1 of the most complex if not the most complex profession in guild wars. classic professions to begin playing with are Warriors and Elementalists(mainly fire eles) as they're pretty easy to get the hang of, but not so easy to master. but we're not talking about mastering yet...

PvXwiki has a few good builds but too many either gimmicky or plain bad builds. a new player shouldnt go there to look for builds right away, he should learn what his profession is supposed to do, what his options are, the good and bad skills of the profession.
than he can go on PvXwiki and look for some ideas, even though non will be original or anything and mostly either overused or plain gimmicky...

so anyway, as a Mesmer you are supposed to disrupt the enemy's plan inorder to make your team's plan work.
for example, shutting the enemy's Blinding Surger so your melee guys can score some kills. or denying adrenaline from enemy warriors so they wont be able to carry on their combos and thus hurt your backline. or simply harassing the enemy monks so they'll eventually collapse under your team's pressure.
you have 2 types of weapons at your desposal:
Domination- mainly for hard effects, be it shutdown, e-denial, damage(to some extent), etc
Illusion- mainly for slowing effects, be it slower movement, casting, health over time(degen), condition spreading, etc

both lines have a few traits from the other, for example Domination has [skill]enchanter's conundrum[/skill] which is very similar to [skill]arcane conundrum[/skill] and [skill]migraine[/skill] from the Illusion line. another example, Illusion has [skill]Accumulated Pain[/skill] which is similar to classic Domination damage skills, or [skill]Clumsiness[/skill] which resembles [skill]guilt[/skill] and [skill]shame[/skill] of the Domination line but with melee instead of casters

both lines are effective against both melee and casters. they just work in different ways. however Domination is more fit towards caster shutdown while Illusion is more fit towards melee shutdown.
skills like [skill]migraine[/skill] is a great anti caster Illusion spell while [skill]empathy[/skill] is a great anti melee Domination spell.

as a Mesmer your job is to read the battlefield, analyze the threats the opposition gives you, decide which of those threats you can best deal with and work against the threat. these threats can change during mid combat as the opposition will be reacting to your actions and thus you will be reacting to the opposition's actions... inorder to do that you need to be familiar with all the professions in guild wars, the strengths and weaknesses of each of them and how to use your own skills to exploit those weaknesses or negate their strengths.